When I came into AA almost 4 years ago, I was blessed to be taken under the wing of several oldtimers, who carried the message of AA without all the superfluous “stuff” that I sometimes hear in meetings today.   When I hear the words “inner child”, “issues” or “codependency” I RUN, not walk to another meeting. I rankle at the words “and how does that make you feel?”.

AA was founded by two guys who found a solution to their problems with alcohol.  Neither of them were saints – they did not write a book detailing how to live life their way – they wrote a book describing how they got and stayed sober.  It’s that simple. 

It bothers me to hear “take what you want and leave the rest” – the “cafeteria-style” approach – that seems to lead to a lot of missed steps.  Who really WANTS to do a 4^th step, find their character defects and work to be rid of them?  It certainly wasn’t at the top of my list of fun things to do, but I did it because I was told it worked.  Even rephrased to “take what you NEED…” creates a problem – who really knows what they NEED when they come into AA?

Early on, when I was on my “pink cloud”, I asked my sponsor if this was what it was like to be sober.  She told me that I would eventually find a balance between the “pink cloud” and normal emotions – that was the only time she referred to emotional balance.  She taught me that feelings are just feelings, thoughts are just thoughts, and it’s the actions we take which make all the difference.  I had so anesthetized myself from feeling anything that it was a whole new experience for me.

AA is not group therapy.  It is a group of people who have found a solution to their common problem (alcohol), and who help each other to stay sober.  Dealing with emotions, self-esteem, and other issues is not AA’s concern.  The steps give us a way to recognize and deal with our reactions to people/things/situations so that we don’t have to drink over them anymore.  I, personally, don’t care if my anger is misplaced due to childhood angst – what is important to me is not drinking over it, and finding a solution. If, by getting and staying sober, my self-esteem increases and my emotions are more controlled, that's just an added benefit of sobriety.

I guess for me, it boils down to this – do I want to sit in the problem by overanalyzing my “feelings”, or do I want to be in the solution by taking the next step?  I spent too many years sitting in the problem, drinking, analyzing, plotting and hurting.  For me, the answer is clear, and the answer is working the steps of AA.

There are those who would call me insensitive or too pragmatic – to those, I say that I remember only too well the pain I was in when I walked through the doors of AA, and I know what worked for me.  I feel the pain of every newcomer who walks in, but I know that there is a solution.  I can’t help the newcomer with their marital troubles or other personal issues, but I CAN help them to stay sober.

And that is carrying the message of AA.

Its not just aa.

All fellowships have there primary purpose.I have never read about an inner child  IN any literature the Big Book or the Basic text of n.a.Its some of that 80s pop shrinkology trying to make a comback.

I love the secret and alot of other things,and they remind me of the program,but they are outside issues,not meeting fodder.
Thats the biggest reason I am not rushing in to start an na meeting untill we have 4 or 5 members posting in the na section.
I love na.
I respect aa primary purpose,and rarely make aa meetings.
We have 2 awesome programs.
I will leave them each to there primary purpose.
Both programs are awesome.
The primary purpose was screwed when a treatment center had one van and alot of folks with diferant issues.
Last time I found my inner child he got me high...lol

Very good post Carol. I could not agree more. I also cannot stand the word slip or trigger! Come on people! you do not slip. You drink. (PERIOD) and it ain't a trigger it is an excuse to drink.  So you said a trigger for me was when my boss yelled at me so I went out again! DUH?! WHAT?!  (hypothetical line there, don't panic) What you really meant was that you haven't done any work , just  expected to get "it" by sitting in a meeting and that that resentment caused you to retreat to the only form of treatment you know how to utilize. You got sticking ass drunk. Again!

Oh and another one? Just do not drink...   DUH!!!!  Go to a meeting... AND DO WHAT?

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thouroughly followed the path..."

DO NOT DRINK, GET A BIG BOOK, GET A SPONSOR, WORK THE STEPS, IN ORDER. APPLY THESE STEPS TO YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE, TRUST GOD AND CLEAN HOUSE.

YOU CAN NOT THOUROUGHLY FOLLOW THE PATH WHILE SITTING ON YOUR THUMBS...

Thanks Carol, ya got my blood flowing this evening...

Namaste!

Great post Carol and so were the replys. I can't say I agree with all of it though. The ability to stay sober comes from the basic text of Alcoholic Anonymous. I hear a lot of things in meetings that I cannot relate to. For me, that is where I have to use the idea of take what you need and leave the rest. The Big Book gives us a guideline for staying sober. Everyone does not work the program the same, but they use the ideas and suggestions in the Big Book to point themselves in the right direction.

I also cringe when someone says I drank or relapsed because.... . The bottom line is I know I drank because I wanted to. I also need to remember that someone new to the program doesn't know what I do. They don't have the knowledge that I have been given through a few years of working the program and talking with the oldtimers. When they say " I drank because " is when the love and tolerence, that I have been so freely given, comes to play. I need to share my ESH with them, just like was done with me, and they will come to understand that there are no excuses. They drank because they wanted to.

I also don't much care for the whineing and crying over outside issues. But guess what? I can remember doing the same thing when I was new. That is when I need to take that person aside and just listen. Granted, it has no place in a meeting. For me, sometimes that was all I needed. Someone to just listen. Not offer advise, cause I probably wouldn't have taken it. I just needed someone to hear me. If you were like me, the only friends you had were the people in AA. Again, there's that Love and Tolerance that I was so freely given.

I don't know about the "inner child" thing. I do know that today I have fun. That was something I hadn't done in a lot of years. That to was given to me by AA. I can joke, laugh and just act plain stupid. If that is my "inner child". So be it and I love it. Life is fun today!!!

The bottom line for me is, "WE stay sober, I get drunk". Sometimes it takes all my love and tolerance to accept what other people do and say. But hey, I never had that before. I'm here 1st, to keep myself sober. 2nd, to do what I can to help keep another alcoholic sober. Sometimes that requires doing things I don't like.

I love each and everyone of you. You help keep me sober, even when you say and do things I don't agree with.

Great thread here.

What a diverse group we are, huh?  I think that is the beauty of the fellowship. We all bring different things to the table.  We all have different issues. There may be something said that I don't agree with, however that does not mean that whatever message was put across did not save the life of someone sitting in that room with me. How cool is that?

How am I going to learn how to get past an emotion or feeling if other's are not sharing that they to felt just as I did, and this is what they did to get over it?  If people are not allowed to share their true experience, how am I going to find the similarities?

I have concentrated this last year or so on practicing patience and realizing that not everyone is going to walk my path. I came into AA and did what I was told. Period. That is my experience, but that does not mean it has to be your experience. I also did a year of therapy my first year of recovery. That does not have to be your experience, but if I share that experience, it may help you.

Are there some times that I would like to tell that person sitting in the same chair, in the same meeting, for the last three years, talking about the SAME thing to just shut the hell up and get over it?  Of course! But what I have to understand is that God has a plan for all of us. It takes what it takes, and frankly, it aint none of my business.  All I can do is share my experience, strength and hope and what others do with it is up to them.

I understand the singleness or purpose, but I also understand that there is One who looks over us all. I have to have tolerance for what is said (boy do I wish I could always achieve it!! lol ) because ultimately, I believe, God's words are spoken in the meetings. 

Imagine, all these years of a bunch of drunks pretending we are running the show (keeping the fellowship alive by going to meetings and making sure the rooms are kept open)!  All these years of dysfunctional, rowdy business meetings. All these years of ego's running rampant. 

If God was not protecting our fellowship, we would have been gone a long time ago! 

Thanks Carol for a great topic!

Well Carol,, we have already decided we share the same brain cell and I will have to agree with that again. As far as I am concerned you have hit the nail on the head.

AA is not here to represent marriage counselors, lawyers, doctors or therapists. We are to share "in a general way" what it was like, what happened and what it is like now.

I remember when the words' Dysfunctional family" started floating round the rooms of AA. When I was at the same meeting as my dad , I could feel his temperature rising just at the mention of those words lol. He had a point, I thought, who DOESN'T come from a family with problems of some kind?He got tired of alkies having something else to blame their problems on.

Every issue BUT problems directly pertaining to alcholism should be addressed outside of the program I think.

A person's problems with mental health, finances, marriage, relationships, heritage etc should all be directed elsewhere.

I am not saying those things cannot be talked about with friends in AA/NA etc. Just not at meetings and not expecting solutions from us who are only equipped to make suggestions about Alcoholism.

While I am at too...... where on EARTH does it say that relapse is a part of recovery? BAH!!! If you relapse and make it back ... God has blessed you, but it certainly isn't a part of recovery that I hear so many people say. We all have a relapse in us but we don't all have a second chance at recovery. I think the word is misused anyways.. to relapse meant we had it in the first place.

Ok ,, I'm done for now   Thanks Carol.

Thought I'd better add a disclaimer here -- while I was "brought up" in AA on the Big Book, and old-time AA, I am fully aware of and sensitive to other peoples' needs for additional solutions. 

Many AAers seek outside help with personal issues, whether it's therapy, religion, other 12 step programs, etc.  That is wonderful if it works for them.  I am all for anything that will keep me sober.  I am not so blind or indoctrinated that I do not look for other sources of inspiration, nor am I intolerant of others doing so.

The point is that an AA meeting is about AA and how AA works.  Newcomers don't know what to keep and what to leave.  Do they need to hear what Susie said her therapist told her about anger?  Why not point to the Big Book instead -- if that isn't enough, pursue other options, but start there for the newcomer.

I know that one's sponsor is supposed to do that, but a) newcomers don't have sponsors, and b) some sponsors do not really carry the AA message -- they put their own spin on it, which is fine to a degree, as long as they stick to the basics.

I know of a sponsor who suggests that her sponsees go through a "rebirthing" experience offered by a doctor friend of the sponsor's.  I have known sponsors who try to impose their religious beliefs on sponsees, and still others who have sponsees paint their (the sponsor's) house in the name of service work. YIKES!

I do believe that there is a loving God watching over AA -- with all the egos, dysfunction and organized chaos in the rooms, most of us have stayed sober without killing each other!

I loved this thread.

I have only been sober since the 6th of June.  Knowing that I needed help, I found this site, downloaded a copy of the bigbook and have only read a portion.  (My hard copy is waiting for me when I return to the states. 

I don't know all of the steps by memory.  I'm looking forward to learning them, with the help of those from this site and others.  

What I do know is we are all individuals and we are all different.  Who knows what method will work for me.  I liken my sobriety to a receipe with 12 steps or ingredients. 

If my goal is to make peanut butter cookies, I'm not going to skip adding the peanut butter.  But I may add nuts or sprinkle suger on the top. (hmmm, making myself kinda hungry now, damn we don't sell peanut butter here!)

Love this site and thanks to all of you who make it work and helping me maintain my sobriety.

J

My dad always told me that I wasn’t dysfunctional…..he said I just function differently.

And aa always told me that the steps keep us from killing other people; and the traditions keep us from killing each other!!!!


What helped a lot when I first came into recovery was hearing people label alcoholism as a disease; they said “I wasn’t a bad person trying to get good . I was a sick person trying to get well.”

The BB identifies the problem as lack of power. The program of action offers me a pathway so I can tap into that power. And the result is that I finally have the ability to “Live well in the Now.”

Simply said; If I’m sober and happy at the same time, I’m less likely to pick up a drink.

When I was out there, alcoholic is what defined who and what I was. But in recovery I’ve become much more than that. I’m a farther, a friend, an employee, a neighbor, an active member in my community. I’m a human being and it’s ok to not have all the answers. It’s ok to be wrong once in a while. I’ve found comfort in being “right sized.” Certainly alcoholic is a part of me. But it no longer “completely” defines what I am; so long as I’m doing the legwork that I need to do.

But “I” was the “only one” that could ultimately determine what it was that I needed to do.

I’ve discovered the importance of rule #62. And finally the drama in my life has faded away. I can live well in the reality that surrounds me.

I am the “only one” responsible for the way I feel today.

Hi

I thought this topic was very interesting, especially since I am very new to AA. I must be very luck as 'the old timers' have taken me under their wing as well. I believe what they tell me, if I follow the programme, all of it, I will be ok. I have no intention of leaving any thing out, I'm told to keep an open mind, which I am trying to do. The thought of 'relapse' really scares me and it's good to see so many of you saying that it doesn't have to happen, it's as if it's nearly expected that it will as so many people do 'relapse'. I'm really scared of that happening to me, if that makes sense. Larry said about relapse, he drank because he wanted to. I totally agree Larry, if I take a drink it will not be because someone said something to upset me or because my dog died........it will be because I wanted to and for no other reason. I see that this is my journey that I have to take it, I have to get sober and stay sober, I can not take a drink with out it runining my life and it is as simple as that for me. I can not do this alone, I need the help of the good people in the AA. I believe their knowledge and understanding will help me to acheive soberiety. I couldn't get to a meeting tonight (it's 8.30pm here) and I really needed to go, but thankfully I have this forum to come to. It really is a great place. Thank you xxxx

love
Davina xxx

To Bri and Phil:

Not to discourage a lively discourse, but both of you may enjoy the web page "That Ain't In the Book", especially the very last line, which says "when the man is presented with this volume it is best that no one tell him he must abide by its suggestions" (page 144 paragraph 3): 

www.aaprimarypurpose.org/notinbook.htm

There are probably as many interpretations of the Big Book as there are of the Bible, Koran and Torah.  No individual interpretation has to be "right", any more than another is "wrong".

The Big Book provides suggested guidelines for a life of sobriety. How those guidelines are implemented is up to the individual. None of us is qualified to judge another's program based on our interpretation of the guidelines.

Extremism and fundamentalism are just as erosive to the common welfare as dilution of the message.

Thanks Carol. I would like to add the following. "Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only little. God will constantly disclose more to you and us. Ask him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order."  Alcoholics Anonymous  Page 178 1st Edition.

Larry

Phil,

I don't know why you seem so insistent on being right, especially when we are all agreeing with you in principle.

AA was founded by 2 guys who found a solution to alcoholism.  Both of them had been members of the Oxford Group.  The Oxford Group had four absolutes:  absolute honesty, absolute purity, absolute unselfishness and absolute love.  Although the Oxford Group did not have "steps" per se, the suggested method of recovery was admission, confession, restitution and service.

Before the Big Book was written, Bill W. and Dr. Bob relied on this method, that other "Big Book" (the Bible), and word of mouth.  Bill W. decided to expand on what he had learned through the Oxford Group, and came up with six original steps.  He later expanded the steps to 12 to eliminate any loopholes, because he understood the alcoholic mind. The only reason Bill W. wrote the Big Book was to keep the message from being diluted through word of  mouth interpretation.

So, in essence, the Big Book is the interpretation of what one man learned, which he passed on to others.  There is no denying that the method works.  No one here has suggested otherwise. 

As long as the basic concepts presented in the Big Book are followed and practiced, the message is not diluted.  I would hate to think of everyone in AA as a brainwashed automaton spouting only direct quotes from the Big Book.  There is a human factor, and Bill W. fully recognized that by saying that the book was meant to be "suggestive only".

That human factor that Bill W. understood was that, as human beings, we think.  We do not accept as gospel anything that is put in front of us.  If we like what we read or see, we will adapt it for our use.  If it works, we will continue to do it, and perhaps add our own thoughts to it, keeping the basics intact.  As an alcoholic, I accept the Big Book and have put it to work in my life.  As a human, I have read other books to help me in this endeavor.  The message has not been diluted, but I can better put its message into the context of my life.

You may wish to go back and re-read some of the responses to see that no one is really disagreeing with you.  The only disagreement is with closed-minded fundamentalism.  You, nor I, have the right to judge whether any one of the responders here are working their program properly based on our interpretation.  You, nor I, have any idea how many people the responders sponsor, or what other service work they do.

I know for me, that if I stop learning, if I close my mind to all the possibilities, if I rely only on one message, my mind will become stagnant, I will become complacent, and I will drink.

That's another message the Big Book carries.

Carol, isn’t it nice to know that when we grow and mature in sobriety we don’t have to attend every battle that we’re invited to. We no longer have that burning need to prove that we are right and the other person is wrong. Or best of all we no longer allow other people the power over us to get under our skin and wreck our day.
Those of us that truly mature learn how to peacefully coexist with other people and the world around us.
And thanks for pointing out that the fundamental principal of recovery is humility, and the fundamental element of humility is remaining teachable. The day I stop being teachable is the day I’ve taken my will back, and that’s trouble. It didn’t work before and there is no reason to believe it will work again.

The only one that is responsible for the way I feel today is “me.”!!!!


And Phil thanks for posting the details, its always fun to read that stuff.